Fed up with a lack of nuanced representations of Black and BIPOC people in the Canadian screen industry both in front of and behind the camera, in 2001, award-winning actor, television host, and industry leader Tonya Williams founded Reelworld Film Festival. Now going strong in its 24th year, Reelworld has expanded to include a two-day summit on equity, diversity, and inclusion in the industry. It’s also become a year-round affair through initiatives like the Reelworld Screen Institute, which provides professional-development opportunities for racially diverse filmmakers.
Midway through this year’s festival, TVO Today spoke with Reelworld founder and executive director Williams about balancing diverse representation with the kinds of stories audiences desire, creating a star system in Canada, and planning to leave Reelworld to a future generation of diverse screen industry professionals hungry for success.
TVO Today: What should people who haven’t been to Reelworld before know about this year's festival or about the summit?
Tonya Williams: Well, most of has already happened. [Laughs] But for anyone who doesn’t know the festival, the focus of Reelworld, which is now in its 24th year, has been Black, Indigenous, Asian, South Asian, and people of colour in the Canadian screen industry. This was our second year of having an amazing two-day summit of panels and discussions about relevant Canadian social issues and policies as well. It was really refreshing for a lot of people.
Reelworld is also year-round programming. We have a number of programs, including the Emerging 20, which is a screenwriting program where we match writers with diverse story editors so that they can get a polished script. We have the Director Immersion Program, a training initiative for emerging directors, the Hollywood Connector Program, as well as three different producer programs.
We also have amazing films, including Les Filles du Roi, a great story about a Mohawk girl in the 1650s. We have a beautiful documentary calledSimply Johanne, which is about Johanne Harrelle. Back in the 1950s, she was the first Black fashion model we had in Canada. We kicked off the festival with Stealing Vows, which is a wonderful South Asian caper movie set against a wedding. There’s something for everyone.
We try to look at things that are not the typical stories you hear in the mainstream. We look for something different — unique, positive stories about the contribution that Black and Indigenous and Asian and South Asian people have made in the community. My hope with Reelworld was not to have a segregated film festival but to have a festival where the audience itself was diverse. For me, growing up, I looked for stories where I identified with a commonality of human experiences, no matter what race or culture was depicted.
TVO Today: You mentioned that Reelworld is year-round, that it goes beyond just the festival. Could you speak to some of the projects that have developed through Reelworld that have made it a venue for professional development and training for filmmakers from racially diverse communities?
Williams: We've been around for 24 years, but when we started, there was really nothing. So even though we planted our flag as a film festival very quickly, we understood people need not only a community, but also training. We don’t say we’re a film school. You still need to go to film school. But there’s a difference between what you learn in film school and what you learn in real life. That’s what we try to present: here is how you actually navigate the industry, here are the people you need to meet, the trade papers you need to be reading, how you strategize a plan for long-term success. Growth and success is different for everybody. We try to show different perspectives.
I started Reelworld because people would come to me and say, I’m trying to do this in the world — how do I do it? I’ve been in this industry for 50 years, but I would look at them and say, I don’t have the answers to helping everyone. What I can do is I can create something like Reelworld and bring lots of experienced people into it where they can share their knowledge, and you can pick and choose what’s useful for you.
I believe in creating an atmosphere and a platform where people can come together. We look for mentors who are also people of colour so that emerging talent don’t always have to look to people that don’t look like them. They can be inspired and think, wow, they did it, so it’s possible I can do it, too. That’s a key part of Realworld and has been from day one. I insisted that my board of directors is reflective of the people we’re serving, that the staff is reflective of the people we’re serving, and that the mentors we bring in are also reflective of that.
TVO Today: When you accepted the Changemaker Award from the Canadian Screen Awards recently, you pointed out how hard it is for anyone to make it in this industry, particularly if you are from a racially diverse background. Obviously Reelworld has had an impact on spotlighting and investing in racially diverse creators and helping them navigate the industry. What systemic barriers against their success are still in place 24 years into this work?
Williams: One challenge is the industry having preconceived ideas about what talent is. I’m a Black person, but we’re not monolithic. Black people aren’t all one person. I’m a woman, but all women are not one person.
We also need to make changes in the content itself. We recently did a research study and protocol guideline called Her Frame Matters, which is around Black, Indigenous, Asian, and South Asian women and how they’ve been depicted onscreen. Canadian content. And we found that there's a nuance to everything that doesn’t always come across in the stereotypes. Rosie Perez said in an interview that, when there’s a white character who’s a sex worker, there’s a whole backstory as to how they became one and the life they live and how it manifested them here. But when it’s a woman of colour, she’s just a one-dimensional sex worker. When the industry puts out content like that, I don’t think they realize it goes around the world. There has been research showing an increase in violence against women of colour because of what you see. There’s an increase in violence against Indigenous women, which might be tied to how media are always showing negative Indigenous stories and nothing positive. We need to get away from that.
Another barrier to people is themselves. You need to stop looking for why you can’t move ahead. I think we forget sometimes how powerful we are and how we can manifest our own success and our own futures. When I started in the ’70s, I would have been laughed at if I talked about the things I wanted to do. But I also felt there was a reason I was on the planet. There was a reason these opportunities were presented to me, and I walked in faith. There is a certain confidence and a certain belief in yourself that I think all of us who want to be in the screen industry in any capacity have to have. The people I’ve seen successful are the people who didn't see the barriers or didn't use them as a reason not to move forward. They stepped around them, over them, under them, whatever they needed to do to get ahead.
TVO Today: I think that’s a common experience for people working in this industry from underrepresented communities: finding your place in the nooks and crannies.
Williams: Absolutely. And I wanted in my speech at the Canadian Screen Institute to remind people it's not easy for white people either. I can’t think of anyone’s parents who said, you know what you should do with your life? You should be not just in the screen industry, but the Canadian screen industry. [Laughs] Parents don’t say that. These are not the dreams parents have for their children. It is hard for everyone. But I did want the white community to know: It’s not that we're saying it’s easy for you and hard for us. We know it’s hard for everyone, but try walking in our shoes. It’s a little harder for us.
TVO Today: We’re speaking in a charged climate right now in terms of equity, diversity, and inclusion initiatives. A lot of the changes we saw in recent years in the film industry in terms of diversity feels precarious right now, as this stuff finds itself at the centre of culture war among politicians, commentators, and loud voices online. In an op-ed you wrote recently for the TorontoStar, you spoke to the importance of maintaining these programs and said your fear now is that “people will cool off and step back and slow down and unravel that progress.” What do you think the industry can do to ensure that that progress doesn't unravel?
Williams: I’m a realist. I think a Donald Trump exists because there was an Obama. There is always a backlash to any kind of movement. It’s almost like if you’re a racially diverse person, there’s a place you're supposed to stay in, and if you move beyond that, there’s going to be backlash. So the backlash was not a shock to me. I knew it was going to come. What I try to say to people in the industry is there was this pie, and maybe you were getting 90 per cent of it before, and now you feel the sky is falling because you’re only getting 50 per cent of it. I say that diversity makes the pie bigger. Even if you got 10 per cent of this new expanded pie, you’re actually getting more than you got the way the pie was before.
It would be ridiculous for Canadians making content to think we’re making content just for white people or we're making content just for Canadians. That kind of thinking might have gotten you somewhere 30 or 40 years ago, but you have to wake up to the reality that there are countries out there that have a billion people in them. And they are not white. You want to sell your content to those people as well.
We are seriously going to have to look at our content and ask, who is our audience that is watching this? And how do we expand that audience? If you're not thinking about diversity, then you’re going to be dead in the water. That’s what you should be worried about. You are just not going to be able to sell that content. India is a massive continent. When you think of all the African countries, there’s a lot that can be sold there. There’s China. Canada has, what, 40 million people? You can’t make content just for them. Even America, with its roughly 350 million people — that’s considered a small audience these days.
I know people think the sky is falling in terms of diversity, but I think it’s that a few outspoken voices have had some negative things to say, mostly older people. But there’s a young generation coming up, and I don’t think they’re sitting around waiting for government funding before they make something. They’re going to have to get savvy. How do they get private equity? How do they build not just one piece of content, but a company that makes a lot of content? That mindset has been around in other countries. It might be a slower burn in Canada, but I think we’re going to be shocked into the rude reality that, while we are in a creative industry, the work has to make money. This is not a hobby for people. This is their job. They have mortgages to pay, kids to put in school.
There is no reason why we shouldn't be getting a financial piece of the pie. We have smart screenwriters here. We have amazing directors. We have outstanding actors, actors who do well in other countries. We need to lure them back to doing great stuff for us. We need a star system like they have in Montreal here in English Canada. Having a star system does not mean ego or patting each other on the back. Having a star system means you have actors you can attach to your project that are internationally recognized, so you can get funding outside of Canada, because people recognize their faces.
Let’s not forget who we’re making the content for, by the way. We’re not making it for each other. We’re making content for an audience. They’re forking out their cash. We’re asking other people to spend $20 to go to a movie theatre. People are paying over $100 for cable or different streaming channels. They expect to get their money’s worth. A star system is what the audience looks for. Audiences follow actors. That’s who they get excited about. We need to get in their boat. Let’s make what the audience is interested in.
TVO Today: Franklin Leonard wrote a piece in the New York Timesin 2021 where he said that Black content is undervalued, under-distributed, and underfunded. He argues that inclusion is not expensive to the degree people think it is: it's exclusion that's expensive because you’re leaving behind audiences who otherwise would be paying to see themselves on screen. As an industry leader, as a festival head, as an actor yourself, how do we make that case for diversity in business terms? How do you convince the people who are funding projects that we need a star system, that we need to make things for audiences, that there are audiences out there for diverse films?
Williams: You use the examples that are out there already. When Black Panther came out, the conversation was that an all-Black movie could not sell internationally. That was a lie. And people saw that: more than a billion dollars were made from this content.
You also look at stars. You see a Halle Berry in something. You see an Idris Elba in something. There are people in Russia watching Idris Elba movies. These are stars. These are charismatic, fantastic looking, interesting characters: as themselves, as people, as human beings that an audience is drawn to. In Hollywood, nobody tries to break down why an audience likes a guy. They just say, an audience likes this person. Let’s build more content around them.
We need to have that star system in Canada. We need talk shows. We need magazines. We need an infrastructure. That’s not just to compare us to the United States. Nigeria has a star system, too. And they’ve built an infrastructure around it because an audience wants to know: What do they eat? What do they do for exercise? Who are they dating? What are they wearing? I believe when you have that kind of star, audiences will even watch content that’s not that good, because they just want to see that person in it. [Laughs]
There’s a new show on FX, American Sports Story, with Josh Andrés Rivera, from the recent WestSide Story. I can’t take my eyes off him. He’s just riveting to watch there. That’s a star in the making. But a show alone doesn't make a star. He’s got a team around him. There are people developing him for what’s next.
There are all these definitions of this, whether you mean stars or celebrities, but at the end of the day, an audience and their thirst and hunger for actors is what we should be satisfying. I’ve seen shows in Canada with amazing actors in them, but I don’t see anybody saying, let’s grab that person and build an industry around them. I see them on a show that’s a huge success and then they’re gone. That’s money on the table that you’re losing. We should be looking for those people we’re going to develop over the next 20, 30, 40 years.
TVO Today: You spoke of the importance of magazines and talk shows to building up an industry around our emerging talent. How do we build a star system in Canada when those are flagging?
Williams: You’ve got to move it to where the audience is. The audience is on social media. How many people now say TikTok is where they get their news? I’m still old school. I like to see a person sitting behind a desk holding a piece of paper, giving me the news. But I think if audiences are not using paper magazines anymore, then go where they are and give them what they want, because that’s our job. At the end of the day, we mustn’t take ourselves too seriously. I mean, we’re in the entertainment industry.
Not that I only think about money, money, money, because I love the creative aspects of this work. I always think there should be money put aside for amazing creative projects or things that we wouldn't normally have. But I also feel that there’s an industry, and I see them as two separate things. We don’t need to wipe out the artistic nature of beautiful things.
I don’t get nervous about government changes, because this also needs to be an industry, where your government is contributing to you making a piece of content that should make money, and that money should pay back into that pot and generate funds for other people to get money out of. It can’t be a one-way street. You can’t say you’re making commercial content and keep holding out your hand for more money.
I'm probably hated for that. But I feel we’re so fortunate in a country like Canada to have the opportunity where there is funding, because a lot of countries get no funding from the government whatsoever, and they still manage to make content. If anything, I’d love that to be shifted to: We’re going to give you some financing, and we want to hear your plan for how you’re going to pay us back. Not the amount we gave you, but double the amount we gave you. I felt the stab in my back from the producers as I said that. [Laughs] I felt the arrow.
TVO Today: It’s considered so impolite in Canada to talk about wanting to make money for your work!
Williams: I think someone should be able to work in this industry, buy a regular normal house, buy groceries and pay for heat and all the other utilities that you need, and buy a nice little car. I obviously don’t want people to jump to private jets or whatever. What I hate is losing talent, that vim and vigour you have when when you’re 18, 19, 20. By the time you’re 25, you're getting married, you’re trying to have a kid: you can’t afford to make this your hobby anymore. You end up quitting the business and getting a different kind of a job. That’s why I think money is important as well, that this business intelligence that folks are building needs to go on into their 30s, 40s, and 50s and can help another generation move forward. There’s a big space between supplementing your work by driving taxis so that you can be an actor and buying an island. Somewhere in the middle is where we need to be.
TVO Today: You’re on the verge of 25 years of Reelworld. What are you most proud of in terms of your accomplishments over that period? What goals do you still want to accomplish?
Williams: Longevity has always been my big thing. Longevity as an actor. Longevity of Reelworld. Whenever I step into something, I step into it knowing there could be 20 years of getting nowhere. But you need to stay with something and stick with it, and that is part of my nature. I’ve committed, and I’m staying.
I’m 66 now. I’ll be 67 by December 2025. I do not want to do the day-to-day that I've been doing for the last 24 years with Reelworld. I’d like to be working on a succession plan, finding the right kind of person that could run the organization — someone who understands financing, fundraising, money, as well as how to run an arts organization. I want to make sure that Reelworld is still here long after I'm gone, or I feel it will have been a waste of a 25-year commitment to it.
I will always be a part of Reelworld, but when I get out of the day-to-day, I want to create a financial endowment that could supplement any shortfalls that might happen through sponsorship or ticket sales. You don’t want something to collapse under that. And I want the industry to understand the value of Reelworld. There’s not anything else you can point to that has had this kind of stamina around this particular subject for this long, and I would hope that, in the same way that the government stepped up to help the Toronto International Film Festival, they would step up and make sure that Realworld would not collapse just because I’m not physically there.
I also want to see young people get stronger about what they can do. It’s not about waiting for what someone else can do for you, but for them to understand that they have the power to achieve all the things they want to achieve. You don't have to sit there thinking, where do I write a grant for this? There may be no grant to write. Are you not going to activate something because there’s not a grant for you?
I get excited about young people who have the hustle. They just know how to make stuff happen. And then there’s those that I see that I go, I don’t know how long they’ll last, because they’re too sensitive, they take everything so personally. And you just can’t.
TVO Today: What else do you want to do once you’re past the day-to-day running of Reelworld?
Williams: I’d like to write a book. Canada is so rich with diverse stories that none of us have ever heard. And we’ve not started to scratch the surface. Every Black story is not about slavery. Every Indigenous story is not about reconciliation. Every story is not about the immigrant experience. There were heroes. There were successful people here for generations that have been forgotten. And I love the idea of bringing those to light and having Canadians sit and think, wow, I had no idea this happened in Canada.
That’s what I'm looking to do in the last leg of my life. Someone said recently, “Now that we’re middle-aged.” I don’t think 66 is middle -aged. I’m not planning to be here at 130. I want to tell stories in the last stretch that have been left behind, that have meaning to others, to generations of people that I don’t even know yet because they’re not born yet.
This interview has been condensed and edited for length and clarity.
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